‘It wasn’t wrong to murder MP’

The Islamic terrorist accused of murdering Conservative MP Sir David Amess told a court today (thurs) he had planned to ‘attack and hopefully kill Michael Gove’.

Ali Harbi Ali, 26, thought he would die a martyr’s death after knifing Sir David, 69, to death but he was bundled to the floor and restrained by two unarmed PCs.

The Southend West MP suffered 21 stab wounds and was pronounced dead at 1:10pm at Belfairs Methodist Church in Leigh-on-Sea, Essex on 15 October last year.

Asked by police officers whether the stabbing was a ‘terrorist attack’ Ali replied: ‘I mean, I guess yeah, I killed an MP, and I done it, yeah.’

Ali denies murder and preparing for terrorist acts between 1 May 2019 and 28 September last year.

He is said to have engaged in reconnaissance of locations of targets to attack including the homes of Mr Gove, 54, and the constituency surgery of Tory MP Mike Freer MP.

Dock officers led Ali to the witness box, uncuffing him before he took a seat to begin his evidence with his clasped together.

Tracy Ayling, QC, defending, read out a note Ali had made on his phone titled ‘Plans’.

Jurors have heard previously that this note said: ‘Morning attack: If there is a press presence I can wait it out with them, see if he uses public transport or hired car, bump into him jogging, best outcome, least probability of seeing him.

‘Evening attack: Ring on the doorbell, cause a scene outside to lure him.

‘Night Attack: Door is wooden and swings into house could be kicked in, also glass next to lock open from through that.

‘Scout on Wednesday.’

Asked to explain the note, Ali said: ‘That was plans I had to attack and hopefully kill Michael Gove at the time.

‘I believed that he was someone who was a harm to the Muslims.

‘I thought that if I couldn’t go join the Islamic State then I should try and do something here to help Muslims.’

Ali went on to admit that he killed Sir David.

Ms Ayling asked: ‘What was the purpose of killing Sir David?’

‘I decided to do it because I felt that if I could kill someone who had made a decision to kill Muslims it could prevent further harm to Muslims.

‘I had a list of about 255 who were still serving and I decided that if I couldn’t go make Hijrah, if I couldn’t help Muslims by going there, then I would do something here instead.’

Ali was asked how he believed his actions would help Muslims.

‘For one he can’t vote again,’ Ali said.

‘And perhaps send a message to his colleagues who have done similar things – that something like that will always have a response.

‘If there’s not a response in this world…then definitely Allah…will deal with him in the next.’

Ms Ayling continued: ‘What about the Muslims in this world?’

Ali replied: ‘Well like I said he won’t be able to vote again so hopefully will not be able to harm Muslims in that regard.

‘You need a certain amount of votes for these motions to pass.

‘And for perhaps his colleagues to realise you can’t just carry out…destruction.’

Ali, of Lady Somerset Road, Kentish Town, denies murder and engaging in conduct in preparation of terrorist acts, contrary to Section 5 of the Terrorism Act 2006.

The second charge alleges he engaged in reconnaissance of locations of targets to attack including addresses associated with members of Parliament and the Houses of Parliament; engaged in internet searches relating to the targets of attack.

Ali said he had no regrets for killing Sir David.

Prosecutor Tom Little, QC, asked: ‘Mr Ali do you regret anything that you did on 15 October 2021?’

‘No,’ Ali replied.

Mr Little went on: ‘If you could turn the clock back to the morning of 15 October 2021 you would leave your property in north London wouldn’t you, and you would head to Leigh-on-Sea intending to kill Sir David Amess. And you are, do you agree, utterly shameless about that?’

‘I wouldn’t use the word shameless,’ Ali replied. ‘But I don’t feel any shame.’

‘If I thought it was something wrong, I wouldn’t have done it.’

The prosecutor continued: ‘You thought Sir David Amess deserved to die.’

Ali simply replied: ‘Yes.’

He confirmed that he had been prepared to die that day and in fact wanted to.

The only thing he would change about that day was telling the custody suite officer that he had performed an act of ‘terror’, jurors heard.

‘The word terror, if I was to go back, I wouldn’t use that word,’ Ali said.

‘I think it’s a word used to delegitimise groups.

‘I used a word that the police would understand.

‘I’d killed David just an hour prior.’

Mr Little questioned him on why he used Sir David’s first name.

‘What would you prefer me to say? I mean it’s his name you use people’s names as a way to identify him.

‘It’s a name of a prophet as well…it’s not unique to him.

‘I don’t see any reason not to.’

Ali said he killed Sir David ‘for Islam’ and described Jihadi John as a ‘brother.’

He told the court: ‘It was done for Islam.

‘Not necessarily Islamic State.

‘I said in interview if it is said it was [done for] Islamic State I would be fine with that.’

He denied that he aimed to encourage others but accepted it as a by-product of his actions.

‘If you encourage someone to do an act of Jihad it’s a good thing.

‘If it influences them [other Muslims] it’s fine, I’m happy with that.’

Mr Little asked Ali if he was proud of his actions.

Ali told him it was dangerous to be proud but said: ‘I consider myself as a Muslim who went out and killed someone who was killing Muslims.’

‘And you don’t even consider yourself a radical Muslim, do you?’ Mr Little asked.

‘Definitely not,’ came Ali’s immediate reply, ‘A moderate Muslim.’

The terror suspect was asked about Jihadi John, who performed a series of beheadings in the name of IS, and how he felt about him.

‘He is a brother,’ Ali said.

‘I can’t say anything bad about him.

‘Criticising a brother in front of a room of non-Muslims is not something I’m comfortable with at all.’

Earlier, jurors heard that Ali had carried the same knife he used to stab Sir David with him on multiple occasions prior.

Asked if he had the weapon with him when he made his way to Tory MP Mike Freer’s surgery, he said: ‘I think I did, yes.’

Asked if he had it with him when he walked outside the Houses of Parliament, he said: ‘Yes, definitely.’

In a rapid sequence of question and answer, Ali’s time in the witness box was drawn to a close.

‘You killed Sir David Amess, you agree with that?’ Mr Little said.

‘Yes.’

‘You stabbed him.’

‘Yes.’

‘You intended to kill him.’

‘Yes.’

‘And when you stabbed him he was in fact trying to help you.’

‘How? Because it was his surgery? I mean I guess, yeah.’

‘The answer to that is yes isn’t it?’ Mr Little asked.

‘I mean I killed him because he harmed Muslims.’

‘He posed no risk at all to you,’ the prosecutor continued.

‘He poses harm to me as well as a result of posing harm to Muslims,’ Ali said.

Mr Little persisted: ‘Let me ask you the question again please, I don’t want a speech.’

Ali huffed a laugh and smiled as he waited for the question.

‘You regarded him [Sir David] as the enemy,’ Mr Little went on.

‘Yes.’

‘You stabbed him solely because of how he had voted in the British parliament.’

‘Yes,’ Ali said, ‘And also his allegiance, he was a member of Conservative Friends of Israel as well.’

‘In the months before you had killed him you had in fact planned such an attack,’ Mr Little said.

‘Yes.’

‘And you have said you were doing exactly what people like Islamic State were encouraging you to do.’

‘Yes,’ Ali said.

As Mr Little suggested the accused did it for his ‘beloved ISIS’, Ali corrected him, saying: ‘Muslims.’

‘I killed him for the sake of Muslims, for the sake of Allah.’

The trial continues.

 

The trial continues.